Not just as a Christian, but as a software engineer who has been online since one had to dial into a local bulletin board system in order to pipe into text-only “internet relay chat,” I am riveted by the slow, but predictable, ideological descent of Christian Twitter, now X, with Elon Musk at the helm of the company.
Many of those people talk about the importance of biblical law all the time, but seem to have contempt for the eleventh commandment. (John 13:34) "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." It's like Paul talked about in 2 Corinthians 3, the law without love brings darkness and death.
I generally agree with every concern you have raised over the past three years about the condition of both society and the church. I don't think it's a new thing, though. I think people have always been racist, xenophobic, small minded and narrow in their concept of who is their neighbor. Jim Crow was a real thing, as was McCarthyism, the violent resistance to the civil rights era, the race riots in Tulsa and elsewhere, the military's opposition to racial integration, systemic anti-Semitism, the John Birch Society. Going back before that we had the Know Nothings, the nativists, and the horrible things done to the Indians.
After the civil rights era those attitudes went into the closet because it was no longer socially acceptable in many circles to openly espouse them, but they never really went away. They were always just below the surface, and Donald Trump's contribution (if contribution is the right word) to American politics is that he made it acceptable to be bigot again.
To me, the most painful thing about his election, and the Christian church's falling in line behind him, was that all he really did was rip off the mask. This really is who we are.
You believe the majority (or at least half) of your neighbors, in this day and age, agree with the “New Christian Right” that an international Jewish cabal is purposefully working the demographic replacement of whites in America? Nearly two-thirds of Americans, in recent polling, think ICE has gone too far, before we even get to such insane opinions. Polite society still very much exists when one puts down the phone.
I did not say that more than half of Americans believe in a Jewish cabal that is seeking to replace whites, nor did I say that a majority of Americans are happy with ICE. I made a general comment which you are now seeking to apply to specific issues. As with all general comments, it applies generally, and not necessarily to any specific case.
In general, I think there are far more people with bigoted attitudes out there than anyone realized before Trump came along and empowered them. If nothing else, after all the bigoted comments Trump himself made, they were willing to overlook them and vote for him anyway. Probably not everyone who voted for Hitler agreed with him on the Jewish question but they were willing to overlook his views on it. And my bottom line is I take the doctrine of total depravity seriously. People are not inherently good, and I fear America is about to have a Lord of the Flies moment.
You opened with "What is this polite society you speak of?" meaning you think it doesn't exist. The hyperfocus on Trump is also telling. I gave you hard evidence that the majority of your neighbors strongly disagree with one of Trump's policies around the subject matter of this post. Do you live in a place where you can go to the neighborhood barbecue and start talking about the "international Jew" without backlash, or does polite society still mostly exist in the real world?
I live in the rural South (currently Orlando but formerly rural Lake County I routinely hear overt racism from other white people when Blacks aren't within earshot. During the Obama administration I actually heard a good old boy say that if someone assassinated Obama, he hoped it would be with a knife so they wouldn't take our guns away. Ten years ago a family from India opened a convenience store in rural Lake County and it was arsoned within a month. I head a court clerk say, after the Floyd murder, that at one time the police knew how to take care of black troublemakers. I understand you live in the Bay Area where things like that don't get said much, but they do here. And I suspect you could find people in the Bay Area who feel the same way.
Don't know how someone would react at a barbeque if someone brought up the international Jewish conspiracy as I've never heard that one actually come up. I can tell you I've heard lots of anti-Semitism too.
Bottom line, though, we'll find out soon enough which of us is right. I hope you are. I would not bet the rent on it.
There are a couple of possible explanations for that. Because of my prior employment (I am now retired) I spent a lot of time hanging out in courthouses where the people whose conversations I overheard tended to be of the good old boy variety. I did poverty law for a time where all of the people I worked with were low income and low education. My brother in law is retired law enforcement and I met lots of other law enforcement at social gatherings at his house, and their social attitudes mostly appalled me. So It may simply be a difference in the people we were exposed to. A lot of them told me they voted for Trump explicitly because he's racist.
I would say put it in perspective. I have not said that those are the attitudes of an absolute majority of the population, and I don't know what percentage of people hold to those beliefs. Maybe a majority; maybe not. But enough to be worrisome. Hitler came to power with less than majority support. And if the problem is as widespread as I think it is, then that fact needs to be candidly faced. You're not going to see change without admitting just how big the problem is.
Thank you for the work you do. Whatever disagreements we may have I really appreciate your voice calling attention to the issue
Many of those people talk about the importance of biblical law all the time, but seem to have contempt for the eleventh commandment. (John 13:34) "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." It's like Paul talked about in 2 Corinthians 3, the law without love brings darkness and death.
What is this polite society you speak of?
I generally agree with every concern you have raised over the past three years about the condition of both society and the church. I don't think it's a new thing, though. I think people have always been racist, xenophobic, small minded and narrow in their concept of who is their neighbor. Jim Crow was a real thing, as was McCarthyism, the violent resistance to the civil rights era, the race riots in Tulsa and elsewhere, the military's opposition to racial integration, systemic anti-Semitism, the John Birch Society. Going back before that we had the Know Nothings, the nativists, and the horrible things done to the Indians.
After the civil rights era those attitudes went into the closet because it was no longer socially acceptable in many circles to openly espouse them, but they never really went away. They were always just below the surface, and Donald Trump's contribution (if contribution is the right word) to American politics is that he made it acceptable to be bigot again.
To me, the most painful thing about his election, and the Christian church's falling in line behind him, was that all he really did was rip off the mask. This really is who we are.
You believe the majority (or at least half) of your neighbors, in this day and age, agree with the “New Christian Right” that an international Jewish cabal is purposefully working the demographic replacement of whites in America? Nearly two-thirds of Americans, in recent polling, think ICE has gone too far, before we even get to such insane opinions. Polite society still very much exists when one puts down the phone.
I did not say that more than half of Americans believe in a Jewish cabal that is seeking to replace whites, nor did I say that a majority of Americans are happy with ICE. I made a general comment which you are now seeking to apply to specific issues. As with all general comments, it applies generally, and not necessarily to any specific case.
In general, I think there are far more people with bigoted attitudes out there than anyone realized before Trump came along and empowered them. If nothing else, after all the bigoted comments Trump himself made, they were willing to overlook them and vote for him anyway. Probably not everyone who voted for Hitler agreed with him on the Jewish question but they were willing to overlook his views on it. And my bottom line is I take the doctrine of total depravity seriously. People are not inherently good, and I fear America is about to have a Lord of the Flies moment.
You opened with "What is this polite society you speak of?" meaning you think it doesn't exist. The hyperfocus on Trump is also telling. I gave you hard evidence that the majority of your neighbors strongly disagree with one of Trump's policies around the subject matter of this post. Do you live in a place where you can go to the neighborhood barbecue and start talking about the "international Jew" without backlash, or does polite society still mostly exist in the real world?
I live in the rural South (currently Orlando but formerly rural Lake County I routinely hear overt racism from other white people when Blacks aren't within earshot. During the Obama administration I actually heard a good old boy say that if someone assassinated Obama, he hoped it would be with a knife so they wouldn't take our guns away. Ten years ago a family from India opened a convenience store in rural Lake County and it was arsoned within a month. I head a court clerk say, after the Floyd murder, that at one time the police knew how to take care of black troublemakers. I understand you live in the Bay Area where things like that don't get said much, but they do here. And I suspect you could find people in the Bay Area who feel the same way.
Don't know how someone would react at a barbeque if someone brought up the international Jewish conspiracy as I've never heard that one actually come up. I can tell you I've heard lots of anti-Semitism too.
Bottom line, though, we'll find out soon enough which of us is right. I hope you are. I would not bet the rent on it.
My brother in Christ, I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt and have only been in a similar situation a couple times over decades.
There are a couple of possible explanations for that. Because of my prior employment (I am now retired) I spent a lot of time hanging out in courthouses where the people whose conversations I overheard tended to be of the good old boy variety. I did poverty law for a time where all of the people I worked with were low income and low education. My brother in law is retired law enforcement and I met lots of other law enforcement at social gatherings at his house, and their social attitudes mostly appalled me. So It may simply be a difference in the people we were exposed to. A lot of them told me they voted for Trump explicitly because he's racist.
I would say put it in perspective. I have not said that those are the attitudes of an absolute majority of the population, and I don't know what percentage of people hold to those beliefs. Maybe a majority; maybe not. But enough to be worrisome. Hitler came to power with less than majority support. And if the problem is as widespread as I think it is, then that fact needs to be candidly faced. You're not going to see change without admitting just how big the problem is.
Thank you for the work you do. Whatever disagreements we may have I really appreciate your voice calling attention to the issue
I grew up in a town in rural Kentucky that still had an active KKK chapter. I absolutely know of what you speak.